It is claimed by some that the police had no other recourse but to taser the girl. This is absurd. The idea that multiple 200+ pound officers could not singly or as a group subdue and arrest a 100-odd pound girl is absurd. Proper techniques would have brought this situation to a speedy conclusion, without the need to resort to a taser. My assistants in this video were not told in advance what techniques would be done on them, but just to act naturally as they would in a similar situation. To respond to some comments, I do not end in full handcuffing position so as to not block the camera shot. To those who claim that this techniqiue would not work against a resisting subject, this is addressed in the video. If a subject resists, and will not give you the arm, it actually makes it easier. By keeping their arm tight to their body, they actually help by allowing you to lift them off the ground by this arm. They can then be maneuvered, using both leverage and inertia, onto their stomach. This technique is from toho jutsu, the technical name for the collection of tactics used by the Tokyo Police Department. It is NOT a pain compliance move, per se, but rather a leverage technique.
so you would rather risk breaking someones arm and getting into a hand to hand confrontation with them where the risks are greater for both partys than by getting complience with a taser which is harmless. painful but harmless.
First, simple courtesy calls for reading a thread before commenting. Even cursory reading shows both these issues addressed repeatedly.
Risk of breaking someone’s arm? It is a leveraging technique, not a joint lock.
Use of tasers also have risk of physical injury, especially from falls during and after shock. Even the manufacturer admits tasers can cause injury. Several third party studies show worse.
Most importantly, there was NO need to arrest anyone, as the facts in this case later showed.
techniques are imperfect especially when the persons applying them dont spend alot of time training in them as most police dont. i am a certified police officer in Texas and i know that people get hurt because of improper technique due to lack of training. TASERS due pose threat to harm from falls but this subject was on the ground already and though injuries can occur from falls the officer is safer by keeping away from hand to hand confrontations. and it helps prevent future litigation.
This was ALSO already addressed. First, there was no need to taser Dana (the girl in the video) in the first place. According to both DOJ and other’s continuum of force rules, as well as Taser, Int. themselves, tasers are NOT indicated for simple passive resistance. By this logic, why not just taser anyone you wish to talk to, just in case?
Nor do they minimize litigation. There is NO data to support this in general, and in this specific case, both Officer Muoio as well as the city were sued.
For those that have never been tasered, it’s actually not that bad. The girl in the video is clearly exaggerating to get attention. Some criminals have used this technique to make an attempt at some kind of bogus lawsuit for financial purposes. Studies have shown that periodic exposure to a taser stimulates the central nervous system and helps combat premature aging of the adrenal glands.
First, you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Depending on where you’re hit, it can be intensely painful. While the electricity is flowing, you are not capable of “faking” anything. I would love to see your evidence that she is “clearly exaggerating.”
The “studies” you attempt to cite were performed by Taser Int., and, even without the obvious bias, have been routinely discredited. Independent studies have shown a direct correlation with severe injury and death related to taser use.
Oh, and while you’re here, how about you post a link to that ridiculous “study” you claimed shows “that getting tased a couple times / year is actually good for the central nervous system as well as many mid term psychological benefits such as curing depression and borderline personality disorder.”
As I stated to you previously, You are posting that BS to the wrong person, as I have a degree in neuroscience.
Are tasers used by the police to be an easy way out instead of trying to get a person to comply? saw a vid when the police tased a guy with a broken back, coz he dident comply when they orderd him to get on his belly.
When is it legit for a officer to tase a person?
Taser Int.’s OWN guidelines, as well those of the DOJ, CLEARLY state that tasers are to be used ONLY against active resistance that puts the officer in danger of injury. They JUST as clearly state that they are NOT for passive resistance/ simple noncompliance.
Apologists want to bend semantics with word games like “You never know if a person might (fill in the blank.) Not only can this be used to justify ANY use of force, what they fail to realize is disengaging also spares protects the officer.
The DOJ and taser international do not set UOF continuums for departments across the country. If there was no reason to arrest this girl then why did you make this video showing people your “leveraging” technique telling them how they should have used force to arrest her.If you ever worked in the law enforcement field you would know there is much less litigation when tasers are used than when you lay your hands on somebody.
No, they don’t set them, but they do give legal guidelines; the VAST majority of departments, including the one in Pgh, model their policies after them.
You don’t seriously consider your argument sound, do you? Are you claiming police never arrest someone w/o cause?
1) there WAS no reason to arrest her, as pointed out numerous times in this thread,
2) working as a LEO would NOT provide me with ANY useful data regarding litigation.
And FTR, I was as an assistant for a local academy instructor.
You still have not addressed my qeustion. There may have not been a need to arrest her. I dont know i wasnt there before the video started rolling. If you believe there was no reason to arrest her why are you showing people how they should have taken her into custody instead. Do you like telling people how you could do things better than them, or do you just like being a critical of police who dont have days to sit and think of how they should do something.
oh and most departments model thier uof continuums after the laws of the US and state penal codes. not the DOJ plan
Because regardless of the NEED to arrest her, they DID arrest her. That being the case, the initial error of her arrest was compounded by poor implementation. Does this really need to be spelled out to you?
As for proper arrest procedure, if it takes them days to figure out what to do in simple cases like this they are incompetent and need to be fired. It is what they are paid for, and what they should be trained to do.
Your argument here is absurd.
Sorry, but you are just flat out wrong. Stating it does not make it so. If you read the UOF manual for ust about any law enforcement agency, it SPECIFICALLY references the DOJ guidelines. They are often copied from them verbatim.
Of course they are written to comply with federal and state penal codes, so that their officers do not themselves get arrested. But such codes offer NO insight into the wide range of possible procedures available. They only give very broad proscriptions.
Your right alot of departments use DOJ giudelines but they are not required to. As long as thier continuum is not breaking federal or state laws they can do what they want. which is why alot of departments have Tasers very low on thier continuums. most departments including mine authorize use of Tasers for non compliance to lawful commands and empty hand defensive resistance, such as laying in the street refusing to move.And please tell me why you made this video if there was no reason to arrest
It is only a matter of personal opinion that tasers where the wrong way to go about securing her into custody. Im not saying that it should take them days to think of what to do my point was the decisions they have to make in gray areas with little time are scrutinized and picked apart for months. Hindsight is always 20/20 and it is much easier to criticize the action taken than to take action.
Make up your mind, First you claim that most departments don’t use the DOJ guidelines, then you claim many do. This does nothing for your credibility in this regard.
You are just plain mistaken in your analysis. While they may be CRIMINALLY protected by following state and federal penal code, they are NOT civilly protected.
It is irresponsible for tasers to be so low on the UOFC, and your department is one good lawsuit away from bankrupting your community.
And the words are “a lot” and “you’re.”
It’s NOT just a matter of personal opinion, it’s a violation of Pittsburgh’s own UOF continuum, & a civil rights violation.
It was NOT a grey area. The call was black and white. Police have hidden behind this lame excuse for ages. They benefit from 10s of 1000s of dollars in training to make this call correctly. This training is why one CAN criticize them after the fact. In fact, this ability to criticize is what prevents us from being a police state, something that doesn’t seem to concern you.
As for that last bit, I have now explained it to you three times. It is getting tiresome.
That there was no reason to arrest her didn’t prevent her from BEING arrested. In addition, the procedures used to arrest her were unprofessional, and, quite frankly, incompetent. As such, I can criticize Officer Muoio on several grounds, including his rational for arrest as well as his arrest mechanics. I do the one in the video and the other in the Comments.
This was also done in court, when he was sued.
All I saw is how to get one arm behind the back. You can still resist a great deal with the other arm. Any one who knows wrestling are other ground fighting techniques can over come this and regain the upper hand. Out on the field you have no idea as to the level of fighting training a person has when you are trying to restrain or arrest. Tasers can weaken the indivdual’s will to fight so the officer can restrain with little to no fighting. Protest the arrest in a court room not in the field.
Good luck with that. It is a reverse near side arm bar to Kimura. Once set, no amount of ground fighting skill is going to help you overcome it. That you don’t recognize one of the basic moves in jujutsu calls into question your knowledge of ground fighting, and your authority for making such a comment. The technique is from tohojutsu, developed by the founders of what became modern jujutsu. It is utilized by the Tokyo police department routinely.
As to the idea that ” Out on the field you have no idea as to the level of fighting training a person has” this has been addressed repeatedly here. By this logic, you should taser everybody you come in contact with. You never know what THEY might be capable of, so you might as well taser them too. Traffic stop? He might be a boxer. Taser. Little old lady asking directions? She might have a knife. Taser.
At some point basic common sense need to take over. That and minimal training standards.
I’m not saying that I would be able to fight the technique but only having one arm in the back and one free can still break free and regain control. I know this because of how many times I’ve gotten out of a hold like that in wrestling matches. I’ve gotten out of many arm bar moves.
I’m not saying taser everyone. There is common sence in judging who really needs to be and who doesn’t. If that old lady pulls out a knife. I would be pulling out my side arm. Not a taser. Knife is a deadly weapon in anyones hands. You use deadly force to combat deadly force.